Why don’t people trust the church anymore—and how can that change?

In this episode, Alan talks with Dr. Eric Mason, founder and lead pastor of Epiphany Fellowship in Philadelphia and author of Rebranding the Church: Restoring the Image of God’s People in the World (Multnomah, 2025). Eric believes that rebranding the church isn’t about polishing its image—it’s about rediscovering its soul.

Drawing on more than three decades of pastoral experience, Eric calls the church to return to the heart of Jesus’ message: loving God, loving people, and embodying the gospel in everyday life. Together, Alan and Eric talk about the church’s credibility crisis, the difference between reputation and reality, and why authentic discipleship is the truest form of rebranding.

They also explore how believers can rebuild trust with their communities, discern truth in an age of false teaching, and create spaces of healing for those wounded by the church. Eric’s message is both prophetic and hopeful—a reminder that God still delights in renewing His people from the inside out.

If you’ve ever felt discouraged by what the church has become, this conversation will rekindle your hope for what the church can be: a people who live the good news they proclaim.

Dr. Eric Mason is founder and lead pastor of Epiphany Fellowship in Philadelphia and president of Thriving, an urban ministry training leaders locally and globally. He’s the author of Woke Church, Manhood Restored, and Urban Apologetics. As well as his latest book, Rebranding the Church.

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