What if the sacred-secular divide is more imagined than real? In this episode of Thinking Christian, Dr. James Spencer sits down with sociologist Elaine Howard Ecklund (Rice University) and business professor Denise Daniels (Wheaton College) to unpack insights from their groundbreaking book Working for Better: A New Approach to Faith at Work. Drawing on the largest-ever study on faith in the U.S. workplace, they explore why so few Christians view their work as a calling, how churches may be failing to equip their congregants, and what systemic structures shape (or stifle) a sense of spiritual vocation. From strip clubs to CEO suites, gig workers to mission-minded healthcare, this is a conversation that will challenge you to see your work—and the work of others—through a new theological lens.

Thinking Christian is hosted by Dr. James Spencer, president of the D. L. Moody Center and author of Digital Discernment (InterVarsity Press). Each conversation reads the Bible as the final authority for life and faith, questioning the assumptions of our culture, even our Christian culture, so that we don't settle for a narrower vision than God's word offers.

Unsettling convention. Cultivating conviction.
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