Pastor Rich Cundall and his wife Laurie adopted four children. Years later, all four were in crisis at the same time and Rich walked into his own board of elders and asked them to decide whether he was still fit to lead.

He told them he hoped they would let him go.

They said no. And the third reason they gave him changed how he understands leadership: "We need an example of what it looks like to walk through the valley of the shadow of death. What it looks like to be broken and still trust Christ."

Sixteen years later, Rich is still the pastor at Hessel Church and he is careful to say that the story does not have a tidy ending. One of the four has been healed. The other three, in his words, are "still working on their testimonies."

In this conversation, recorded in front of a live audience at Hessel Church during the NorCal Men's Summit, Rich and Jeremy talk about what it actually costs to lead through adversity: why the church's instinct to hide brokenness forfeits its credibility, why a leader has to build his team long before the crisis arrives, and why Rich believes the very thing you think disqualifies you is the thing God intends to use.

"We impress people with our strengths. But we connect with people in our weakness."

Hessel Church: https://hesselchurch.org

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