BibleStudyTools.com: Does Romans 9-11 teach the future restoration of the nation of Israel?-Jerry Marcellino

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COMMENTS(18)

  • 2013-11-02T19:37:38

Some good points made by Bro.Jerry, but I think his understanding of the nation's role is mistaken. Christ is the Light to the Gentiles spoken of in Is.49. And through Him, the Church. When will the nation be converted? *After* the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, Romans 11:25. Is the nation still special to God? Yes, it alone has His preserving hand upon it, so that it will not disappear from the face of the earth. Why? Because God has chosen it to manifest His glory. He keeps a remnant in each generation, and will convert the whole nation one day. I think the key to understanding what God is doing is seeing the Church as the fulfilment of the promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The Church is the Israel of God. She is first of all Jewish; with Gentiles added in - one commonwealth of Israel, Jew and Gentile equal citizens, all Israelites by faith in Christ. When the nation is converted, it will not be a separate entity from the Church, but added to the Church, just as the remnant is today. The Church is the object and final manifestation of His love. Revelation pictures the eternal state - the bride is the Church, the Church is Heavenly Jerusalem, her walls and foundations are a combination of the 12 tribes and 12 apostles.

  • 2012-11-28T19:51:10

Helen, also respectfully; you use the words ("you can clearly hear they are the "chosen/selected" people of Christ"). Sorry, but that is not so. Nowhere in the Bible are they called ANYTHING of "Christ." They were chosen by God to bring forth the Christ. They are the natural olive and we are the wild olive but they are NOT special in the context of the New Testament. Not at all. We have NO beef with Jews becoming believers either, Helen - that is a wonderful thing and we rejoice about it. The book of the Revelation does NOT "clearly" speak of the ("144,000 virgin JEWISH MALES that will teach for a while and then perish for his name sake."). There is also NO such scripture, Helen. Read it all again and you will find that there are "two witnesses" and NOT 144,000 virgin Jewish males" that is spoken about in terms of being slain and rising from the dead. In the New Testament we read that there were certain Pharisees that had become believers and they were trying to get the believers to revert to keeping the Law and we see that the church leaders discussed it and came to the conclusion that there is NO obligation for believers to keep ANYTHING to do with the Law. Read about it in Acts 21:21-25 and see that the authority in the Church concluded that there is NO necessity for believers to keep the law - NONE. That is bondage, Helen. Paul writes to the Galatiians and asks them who has bewitched them - yes, going back to the Law is tantamount to being bewitched. Why? Because the Old Covenant was found wanting in Heb 8. There was a NEW TESTAMENT established in His Blood and it has NOTHING to do with the Law of Moses. If people think they can please God by keeping the Law, then Paul tells them in the Book of Galatians that for them CHRIST HAS DIED IN VAIN and if they insist on circumcision (just one of the laws) then they are obligated to keep the WHOLE LAW!! This is serious stuff!. These are not just things we "like" to argue about or that we "choose" to debate about - these are CRITICAL issues that are at stake here because people are being led to believe that the right way is the way of the Jews and the right name is Jeshua etc. I have written an article on this site about that 'sacred name' business and don't want to have to repeat it here. However, it is clear that you have a good spirit and that you just want to do what is right - so bless you Helen and may the Great Shepherd of the sheep make these things clear to you too ....and to me - I am always open to solid teaching that comes out of our most wonderful Scriptures..

  • 2012-11-28T17:03:00

Johann & Alan, I see your points and enjoyed reading them both, but I respectfully disagree. At least with the part about the Jews, it is not being said here that they are "special" as you can clearly hear they are the "chosen/selected" people of Christ, which does not make us any less than them. Jesus is clear about inclusion of ALL nations and favoring the poor in spirit over any others, again meaning ALL, even the Jews His chosen ones. It is also written that we should remain as one and not quarrel with one another. Perhaps I am wrong, perhaps the Doctor in the video, but perhaps you two are wrong also. As Christians, we are one under Him. Revelations clearly speak of the 144,000 virgin Jewish males that will teach for a while and then perish for his name sake. It is consistent with the sacrifice of the old days of Moses & our Lords ultimate sacrifice. One who is unblemished, pure and righteous. Let us all keep studying & pray over the matter, coming to some sort of agreement, especially publically.

  • 2012-11-28T16:08:32

Yes, we do Gail. With reference to what you've just said, I'll be the first to admit that their custom of the Shabbat is a beautiful one and that so much of what they do is beautiful and honourable. However, God has moved on from there. The son of the bond woman CANNOT inherit with the son of the free woman. The two are worlds apart. Paul tells the Galatians that if they want to keep even ONE of the laws, then they are obligated to keep them ALL. Christ came to set us free from what? I'll tell you; from the CURSE of the Law !! How many understand that? I'll tell you again; very few. There is NOT a first grade Christian from the Jews and a second grade Christian from the Gentiles. They BOTH FIRST have to be IN CHRIST. Then and THEN only there is neither "Jew nor Greek." The Bride of Christ is NOT made up out of Christians AND remnants of an apostate nation called Israel - and the sooner people see this the sooner this 'special' Jewish-custom-keeping-Christian thing will see its demise...

  • 2012-11-28T14:24:14

I agree with you Johann.. I have a friend who calls himself a "Jewish Christian," and has adopted many Jewish practices. He has been praying for me to find a church where Jews worship. I do think that whosever believes on Jesus will be saved and that applies also to Jews, but I do not believe that we have to adopt the Jewish practices like the shabbat and all their Sabbath laws since Christ fulfilled the law and it is now by Grace that we are saved and not by works. I guess God still holds out hope for their nation, just as he holds onto hope for all mankind. We have a mighty and merciful God, don't we!

  • 2012-11-28T14:23:43

...adorned as a bride

  • 2012-11-28T14:23:17

Revelation tells us that the abode of God is with man, then we are the new Jerusalem.

  • 2012-11-28T14:18:36

TRUE, what does an Israelite have to do to be more saved then I am? He also have to repent just like I did theres no special favour for them, true you are. Doctrine will teach us that God owes the Jews a secon chance, never have I read that anywhere, their 2nd chance came when Jesus walked the earth, no we that are saved are the children of God not the Isreallites, they will have to repent just as I have, thats the only way for them

  • 2012-11-28T14:11:43

I don't believe that the Israel of today are in any way 'the people of God'. They rejected their Messiah and they said, "let His blood be upon us and upon our children," and the Scriptures make it abundantly clear that God HIMSELF has blinded them until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. Anyone who now claims that they are "special" and especially those who try to make the born again Jew to be something 'special' have not understood the Scriptures. Today, in God's eyes the city of Jerusalem is "Sodom and Egypt", so why would so many Christians be sending money there and also praying for what they incorrectly call "the peace of Jerusalem." God has done away with the physical temples, cities, sacrifices and modes of worship. He's looking for those who would worship in spirit and in truth. Yes, Paul tells us that the Jews need to be "grafted in again" and that is the only way they can be saved. They HAVE to come through the only door and that "Door" is the Lord Jesus Christ. I know that people like pastor Haggee with his enormous learning tell the world that there is a salvation for the Gentile and there is ANOTHER salvation for the Jew, but frankly he is wrong - Period! There is ONLY one way and that "Way" is again the Lord Jesus Himself...

  • 2012-11-28T14:11:07

Once again good word and a breaking down of it for all to understand, that are of Him. I was pleased to hear from this truth that Dr. Marcellino included ALL saints and not just the Jews, children of Israel, the elect of Christ Jesus. It is important for us Gentiles to remember His words to the disciples to: Paraphrase: Teach ALL Nations, not just His chosen ones. Dr. Marcellino is correct that we are one under the Holiest One. However, he is correct we should all pray as believers that the chosen ones are restored in the lands that were promised to them so when that great day happens we will see the hand of prophecy and know that the Lord is good on His word. Giving Him the Praise & Glory forever. I love this site! Praise God!

  • 2012-11-18T00:52:08

Another common misunderstanding is found in Ephesians 2:11-12. Some people say that these say that the church (Jew and gentile) is the commonwealth of Israel , but these verses say no such thing.

  • 2012-11-18T00:45:58

One more thing the bible NEVER says that the church ( Jew and gentile) is grafted into the olive tree (Israel- only Jews). This is such a common misunderstanding.

  • 2012-11-18T00:37:51

God will not save the nation of Israel but the REMNANT of the nation of Israel (Romans 9:27; Isaiah 10:22)

  • 2012-11-18T00:30:37

Just the elect of Israel will be saved and are being saved, there is a remnant of Israel to be saved not all of them and it started with the disciples in the upper room when Messiah inaugurated the new covenant in his blood with his elect Israelite disciples.

  • 2012-11-17T23:37:21

Jerry was a classmate of mine. I am anxoius to hear...

  • 2012-11-17T23:25:12

Amen

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